Building for the Future: Women’s Sports Facilities and the New Era of Design and Construction

In this episode of the Construction Insiders Podcast, host Jessica Busch sits down with structural engineer Emily Carlip and Cumming Group’s project manager Molly Hayes to discuss the evolving design and construction of facilities for women’s professional sports. They dive into trends like urban-centered stadiums, sustainability practices, and technology advancements that enhance the fan experience. Tune in to learn how new approaches to design are driving inclusivity, safety, and community activation in sports and entertainment venues.

[00:00:00] Jessica Busch: On today’s episode of the Construction Insiders Podcast, we will be discussing live entertainment facilities and specifically diving into the world of women’s professional sports and the facilities as they relate to design and construction topics.

[00:00:16] This is the Construction Insiders Podcast. I’m Jessica Busch bringing you the newest trends and strategies in construction, essential to anyone in the industry. Welcome to today’s episode of the Construction Insiders Podcast. We’ll be discussing live entertainment facilities and specifically diving into the world of women’s professional sports.

[00:00:35] Today, I have Emily Carlip who joins us from Holmes. They are an international design firm, and they focus on high seismic design renovations, new construction with a key market presence in sports entertainment, commercial and education sectors. She is an associate principal and structural engineer, and she has quite the track record when it comes to these types of facilities.

[00:00:57] So, thank you for joining us today, Emily.

[00:00:59] Emily Carlip: Thanks for having me.

[00:01:00] Jessica Busch: And on the other side of me over here, we have Molly Hayes. She’s a senior project manager. She works with Cumming Group, and she has a longstanding background in this industry when it comes to sports and entertainment facilities.

[00:01:12] So we thought, let’s get these two gals in the room, let’s talk about all things sports and especially with this new focus on, uh, women’s professional facilities and what they’re going to look like and how they’re going. So, welcome.

[00:01:26] Molly Hayes: Thank you. We’re excited to chat about this today.

[00:01:28] Jessica Busch: Let’s do it. So, um, without much more time, uh, let’s hit the ground running.

[00:01:34] What, when we are talking about live entertainment and these facilities. What are the most significant trends that you have been seeing over the last several years?

[00:01:45] Molly Hayes: It’s a great question. I think that there’s been a big push towards big arenas and stadiums. I think there’s been a mixture of fully privately funded, and then you see a couple of them that are public private partnerships.

[00:01:59] But by in large, I think one of the greatest trends I’ve seen is that there’s been a push to try to have arenas and stadiums back in urban environments. In districts with mixed use retail and offices and maybe residential. We saw that with Chase Center, which Emily and I both worked on in the Bay Area in San Francisco.

[00:02:19] You’ve seen it with Intuit Dome, which opened last month, has their opening game in two days or so. So, there’s really been a focus on trying to get it to be not just a place where you go see a game, but a bigger district where you stay and have fun.

[00:02:35] Emily Carlip: It’s no longer a stadium in the middle of an ocean of parking. Right? A way to activate a community and create a lot of revenue generation opportunity for those teams.

[00:02:45] Jessica Busch: I was gonna say back in the day it was like the Glendale, Arizona’s where it was nothing and they put it out there and then, you know, so we’re going, we’re reverting back.

[00:02:53] Emily Carlip: Yes.

[00:02:54] Jessica Busch: Awesome. And so, with, with that new trend and also kind of the collision of the professional women’s sports.

[00:03:00] Gaining more popularity. What impact to design and construction is this kind of new focus of getting these women’s specific facilities?

[00:03:14] Molly Hayes: Well, I think one of the most exciting things is that women’s sports is now a subject that we talk about, which is, uh, only recent in the past couple years and the, I think of the Kansas City Current, which is one of the, it is the first, uh, first facility constructed for a women’s sports team.

[00:03:32] Uh, and I think Emily probably has a couple of things to talk about for some of the projects that she’s working on with the Seattle Storm. So, I’ll, I’ll kick it over to Emily.

[00:03:39] Emily Carlip: Yeah, I mean, it feels like it’s unprecedented in the sense of the attention that’s been on women’s professional sports really did not exist in a pre-pandemic, pre social media society.

[00:03:51] And once that kicked up, people started paying attention. I think we all knew it was really hard to find a women’s sports game prior to, like, 2019. Now it’s a lot easier. Increased media rights are putting a lot more dollars into these teams and Owners are taking notice, they’re buying teams, their leagues are expanding, and as part of that, they’re offering and promising to build training facilities.

[00:04:13] So for the first time, really, ever, we’re really paying attention to women’s sports and saying, hey, these women need to practice and train like professionals, and our building stock should accommodate that. We’re seeing that here locally in Seattle with the culmination of the WNBA Seattle Storm Center for Basketball performance that I had the opportunity to work on, the first of its kind, specifically and intentionally built for this team.

[00:04:39] Jessica Busch: And so, on that, on that note, what type of unique design construction elements for these women’s specific facilities are you seeing compared to the traditional men’s venues?

[00:04:53] Emily Carlip: I get asked this question often, and I ask a similar sense of this question often as well, because we’ve never really had an opportunity to ask before.

[00:05:01]And I think we all know the sports science doesn’t really reflect what a woman’s body needs to hit peak performance.

[00:05:22] There’s a lot of science that still needs to come and our building stock should be flexible to say, hey, we don’t know what kind of equipment is going to help our athletes reduce the incidence of ACL tears, which is super high right now in the NWSL. I think something else that’s really interesting and more women focused is this concept of private versus public.

[00:05:44] These women are not earning enough dollars from their league salaries to earn a complete living, and so a lot of them are having to look at opportunities for revenue generation, whether that is through concepts like name, image, and likeness, NIL, or getting out there on social media and really representing their brands.

[00:06:02] And so our, uh, training facilities in our arenas should have space to allow them to do that. But on the flip side of that is this idea of privacy. I mean, you’re seeing some of these leaks come out, like the Sally Yates report for the NWSL saying, Hey, there’s a history of abuse. There’s too many people who are allowed into spaces like locker rooms where they really shouldn’t be and it’s mostly because these women’s teams have never had more than a locker room as part of their training facilities. So how do we permit safety? How do we permit holistic health and wellness and for these players to permit them to be the best they can be?

[00:06:40] Molly Hayes: Yeah, and I also, I want to jump into because we’re, we’re at a crux of a big change, right? We now have our first stadium that’s built for women’s sports. We have, more frequently, still a long ways to go, we’ve got training facilities that are built for women’s sports, but we also have on the other side of the spectrum, we’ve got stadiums that aren’t built for women’s sports and women are using green rooms and artists rooms or on bi weeks they’re using the the NBA teams or whomever it is.

[00:07:10] Jessica Busch: Get creative with the space that they have.

[00:07:11] Molly Hayes: Yes! So, it’s I think we’re heading in the right direction of trying to build for women Often with women which is exciting to be here for an all women podcast.

[00:07:23] Jessica Busch: It’s true. It’s the first.

[00:07:24] Molly Hayes: Yeah um, but because of that, I think we have a long ways to go. We see the direction we’re headed, but we can’t forget that half of the, I mean, thinking about just WNBA is very hot on my mind. The finals just happened last night. The New York Liberty went, won. Five years ago, the

[00:08:02] Jessica Busch: And so, you’re already starting to talk about some of the facilities currently, and what, what is out there right now?

[00:08:09] Um, what are we in terms of examples, things that are kind of leading edge right now, what, what’s going on out there with these women’s focused facilities?

[00:08:19] Molly Hayes: Well, I’ll speak from the Bay Area. So, um, I worked on the Chase Center Project, which is the Golden State Warriors. Emily and I both did that five years ago.

[00:08:28] Uh, Bay Area is actually getting a lot of great momentum in women’s sports. We’ve got the Golden State Valkyrie, who are the franchise, the expansion franchise team for the WNBA. So, their first season will be next year. We also have Bay FC, who is one of the newest teams, uh, for women’s soccer and both of those are going through very exciting, um, new changes.

[00:08:51] So the Valkyrie are in the process of building out a new locker room within Chase Center. They’re building out a training facility in Oakland. They’re basically taking over what used to be the basketball camp facilities for the Golden State Warriors. So, there’s been a big push and a big focus on exactly what, um, Emily is saying is how do we create this parity to be able to have the Valkyrie have, uh, an incredible locker room, just like the Golden State.

[00:09:15] Jessica Busch: So, using an existing facility, but creating a unique space for them.

[00:09:20] Molly Hayes: Yes, yes. That doesn’t look like it was sort of band aided together, right? It’s something that feels unique to them, that has its own character and is not sort of in the back of house area.

[00:09:33] Jessica Busch: Yep.

[00:09:35] Molly Hayes: Similarly, the Bay FC have just announced that they’re doing a new training facility on Treasure Island in the Bay Area.

[00:09:40] So that’s also very exciting, this concept of a, uh, that, uh, a training facility that’s built for a women’s team. Who knows if there will be a stadium in the future, but I think, by and large, there’s so much momentum and excitement. I mean, the Valkyrie, for example, haven’t had a game and they already have 18, 000, uh, season ticket deposits.

[00:10:00] So I think we’re really heading in the right direction.

[00:10:02] Jessica Busch: Again, five years ago, would have never thought that.

[00:10:04] Molly Hayes: Yeah, exactly.

[00:10:07] Emily Carlip: I think people, if they’ve heard about women’s pro sports and stadiums, they’ve probably heard of the Kansas City Currents, uh, CPKC Stadium, the first stadium built specifically for pro women’s sports.

[00:10:18] And it also, you know, will be part of a larger district. It serves a very interesting niche in the market. I think it’s about 11, 000 seats and that permits it to have this opportunity to host events that are not quite big enough for an 18, 000 seat arena, but certainly much bigger than a typical, uh, typical smaller stadium for a collegiate or high school space.

[00:10:43] And they’ve, I think, far exceeded their revenue targets within just three years of opening. Um, all the news that I’ve read about them is that it’s a highly successful project and hopefully just the first of many.

[00:10:56] Jessica Busch: It is hopefully first of many. Uh, and so switching gears just a little bit here with all these new facilities and the new focus on them.

[00:11:03] What are we seeing with sustainability, eco-friendly practices when it comes to incorporating that into their construction and their design elements?

[00:11:13] Emily Carlip: There’s a lot to talk about in this space, uh, and I’ll start

[00:11:16] Jessica Busch: I know you’re quite passionate about it.

[00:11:17] Molly Hayes: Yeah. Emily gets very excited about this part.

[00:11:19] Emily Carlip: I know.

[00:11:19] I, I’ll start by saying I think the sports industry is extremely far behind. And there’s a lot that we can do, but I’ll tell where we are and where I think we can head in the future. Um, you’ll hear a lot of stadium operators talk about operational carbon. What are their greenhouse gas emissions on the day-to-day event?

[00:11:37] Um, you’ll hear a lot of operators talk about their, uh, their garbage use, how much they’re composting, how much they are diverting from landfills, and are they able to reuse cups? That’s a really big deal. Um, there’s a lot to do with energy efficiency, and there’s a bottom-line component to that that makes it really easy to make an argument for. We should be very energy efficient. We should be electrifying each component of our stadiums. And you’re seeing that here in Seattle specifically with the Climate Pledge Arena, which is a net zero project. Where I think we’re going next is in this concept of embodied carbon.

[00:12:18] And as a structural engineer, this is what I think about most frequently. What are the greenhouse gas emissions having to do with the manufacturing and construction related processes for building these buildings? We’re finally getting a seat at the table and talking about how do we track our embodied carbon and what are the strategies that we can do to reduce it here in Seattle?

[00:12:38] I’m going to be a structural engineer for a second. Um, we have a great structure,

[00:12:42] Jessica Busch: Put your structural engineer hat on, please.

[00:12:43] Emily Carlip: Yeah, we’re going to do a quick concrete lesson. We have great aggregates here. We have people at the forefront of the concrete ready-mix industry, and we can really lower our embodied carbon with our mixes just based off of our manufacturing prices, or excuse me, manufacturing processes, and the choices that we make and how we limit the amount of cement that we put in our mixes.

[00:13:05] I want to state something that I would like to see as a future trend is this idea that the greenest building is one that already exists and ask like, how, how much can we do, what are the decisions that we can make to renovate and retrofit these monumental facilities as much as we can? Uh, I think the sports industry specifically has some very competitive people in it that love to see the best, love to have the best, and that I believe correlates to an effect on the built environment of building these monumental facilities very frequently and perhaps too frequently.

[00:13:40] Jessica Busch: Instead of reusing. Exactly. And making them fabulous.

[00:13:42] Emily Carlip: Yeah. Yes.

[00:13:44] Jessica Busch: Gotcha. And so, in terms of making the best and the newest and all of this competitiveness that we see in this industry, which is, can be fun, what in terms of technology, um, what are they putting in these facilities? What are they demanding? What are the, you know, teams, attendees, what are we seeing? What do they want?

[00:14:05] Molly Hayes: Oh, I think one of the best examples of this, which is hot out of the oven, if you will, is Intuit Dome, which is the new LA Clippers NBA arena down in the Los Angeles region. Uh, they are integrating facial recognition, uh, for their ticketing.

[00:14:22] So that is, I think the whole concept is trying to have as frictionless of an experience as possible. So, they’re one example, but other arenas are trying to integrate, basically, how can you walk around, pick up a soda, and have some technology be able to charge you without you even opening your wallet.

[00:14:38] Jessica Busch: So, you’re not standing in those massive lines, you’re just picking up and going.

[00:14:41] Molly Hayes: Exactly. We want, we, we want to be able to reduce time that you’re in lines because then you get to have more time exploring or buying something or being a part of the game experience.

[00:14:51] Jessica Busch: Watching what you came to see.

[00:14:52] Molly Hayes: Exactly. Exactly. So it’s, It’s, it’s facial recognition, it’s, speaking of Intuit Dome, they have this incredible double sided Halo video board within the, the stadium itself, excuse me, within the arena itself and so you’re interacting with the technology and I think there’s been a big focus in getting people not just to the games, but then being able to interact during the game.

[00:15:18] So, the, you know, I, I go to the Golden State Warriors games every now and then and you see on the video board, you can basically scan a QR code and then you become a part of the video board. You’ll see yourself on the screen and you’ll play the banjo and you’ll do all these, uh, fun things and it’s all a part of engaging you because you’re here for the game itself, but also just to be a part of a, something bigger than that and to, to keep you active and engaged and a lot of it happens through technology.

[00:15:48] Jessica Busch: And so, too, down in, you know, the basics, right? You gotta have phone, you gotta have service. So, some of these facilities that are way out and then it’s spotty service, that, that cannot be a thing of the future if they’re trying to engage you in the moment and using your device and encouraging that type of engagement.

[00:16:08] Molly Hayes: Absolutely. I mean, one of the big challenges when you are designing an arena is that it can take years to design and permit and build and so you are trying to plan for opening five years from now, or even 10 years from now, if there’s a lot of challenges with getting it off the ground. And so, there’s all these discussions with how do you future proof? And how do you come up with these ideas that you may not know what technology exists, but you want to be able to be flexible to implement it.

[00:16:35] So, that might look like installing a couple of extra spare conduits from the ground. It also might look like, uh, being able to install wireless access points in under every seat, if you will. So, there’s a lot of different ways that we can do it, but, you know, we’re all here trying to see into the crystal ball that how, how to see exactly how to do that.

[00:16:54] So, there’s still more. There’s still more to come, but we can only take our best guess.

[00:16:59] Jessica Busch: Right. And so, in terms of, you know, post pandemic design, construction facilities, in terms of health and safety, I’m assuming in all of these new concepts and plans there’s been quite a few changes than what we’re traditionally used to.

[00:17:17] Molly Hayes: I get, I get excited about this. This is some of my history.

[00:17:19] Jessica Busch: This is your exciting question? Great. This is your concrete?

[00:17:22] Molly Hayes: Yeah, this is my version of concrete.

[00:17:24] Jessica Busch: Take it over then.

[00:17:25] Molly Hayes: Um, so in my past life, I worked for the, the NBA, um, and during the pandemic, there was a, a big, uh, response for health and safety standards. What do they look like in this post pandemic world? How do, how, how can games be hosted in a safe way for the players, for the coaching staff, for the audience? And so, it, it comes in both design and operations. So, for design, there’s a lot behind the scenes with the the, the, the less sexy concepts, but like mechanical systems and things like that, being able to have more air changes, being able to have higher Merv filters, just to make sure that you can get, um, as many bad particles out as possible.

[00:18:06] So, there’s a lot going on behind the scenes before a fan even enters the building with making sure it’s a, uh, it’s, it’s as safe as possible. And then same thing with the operations. I think the arena staff do a really great job with being able to, uh, clean in between games or even during, um, during events.

[00:18:27] And so I, I give a shout out to the NBA. I think that there’s been a, a, a large group of doctors and experts that have, uh, helped develop these standards, which the arenas are, are, um, enacting.

[00:18:40] Jessica Busch: Nice, nice. Um, and so what types of challenges are we seeing right now, um, when it comes to building or renovating for these types of entertainment facilities?

[00:18:49] What are we up against?

[00:18:51] Molly Hayes: I think two things, depending on what you’re, what you’re building. One is, in a renovation, you often already have, you know, games happening. So, you know, take the Valkyrie, for example, in the Bay Area, the Warriors are not stopping their season in order to help the Valkyrie build a locker room and so there’s a big challenge with how do, you know, what is the timing? When are the contractors actually coming in and doing this work? How do they not disrupt this ideally 365 day activated site? So, that is one of the big challenges for renovation. Same thing with Scotiabank, Scotiabank in Toronto is going through some really big, um, renovations, even though they have multiple major tenants.

[00:19:35] They have the Maple Leafs for hockey. They’ve got, um, the Raptors for basketball and so, there’s a lot of coordination that hopefully no one sees, but that has to go into it. And then same thing I’ll say for the new buildings is there is a date in which the season starts and there is no wiggle room in order to open a building after that date.

[00:20:02] A lot of times there’s lease agreements where, um, if you miss that first date, then the team has to sign on a lease for an entire year, for that whole season somewhere else. And so, you know, I think contractors in general have done a really good job because that, that date is firm and there are, hurdles that need to be jumped through in order to ensure that the building opens on the day, hopefully early, the day that it says it does because you can’t afford to miss a season in sports.

[00:20:31] Jessica Busch: So, you mentioned the 365-activation hope. In terms of these multi-purpose designs, what is being utilized to maximize and hopefully get that 365 to really bump up the ROI and the profitability of these facilities?

[00:20:45] Molly Hayes: I think we can, we can probably talk about Chase Center because I think there’s some cool structural elements, uh, to Chase Center so I won’t, I won’t steal Emily’s thunder there but, um, again there’s two parts to it.

[00:20:55] One is you are oftentimes or hopefully more frequently building an arena or a stadium within a larger scale environment. So, you’re going to a restaurant before a game, maybe you’re going to yoga in the park in the lawn right outside, uh, and maybe there’s an office upstairs and retail downstairs. So, you’re going and you’re staying. You’re, you’re hopefully there. The impetus is to go to a game, but you go a few hours early, you stay a few hours late. So, that’s part of the activation. And it’s not just games, right? It’s not just the NBA or hockey or whatever it is. There’s other smaller events. So, I’ll kick it to Emily before I start stealing that thunder.

[00:21:36] But, how arenas can do that.

[00:21:39] Emily Carlip: You’re totally right. There’s that concept. Called like a third. A third space, right? You have your home as your first, your work is your second and community is built in your third space and so the more that these facilities are built in urban centers where there’s tons of population people to activate, right?

[00:21:55] The more opportunities that people will go there and see these are my people, not just because they wear the same jersey as me, but because, you know, we’re of the same place. We are made of the same fabric. Um, So how do these facilities actually enable that, right? It’s with, at Chase Center, the giant video board that’s out in the plaza, right, that can, on away games, show the games, but it can also show anything and be any type of content, um, an opportunity to have viewership and watch together.

[00:22:25] Inside the arena, I think there’s some really interesting concepts of how do you enable the facility to host more than just NBA games and that has to do with, um, how the bowl is set up, what are the viewing angles for a concert that’s set on just one side of the arena, for some event that’s in the round, like the first event that Chase Center hosted, um, the other concepts of, like we kind of hinted at with Kansas City, this idea of, you don’t always need 18, 000 seats, so Chase Center has a, what’s called a gantry grid to close off the, um, the rigging surface.

[00:23:00] That’s part of the Long Span Truss system in the arena, so that they can drop a proscenium in a theater to host 5-7000 seat theater type events and have, hopefully, the acoustics work out in the same way as they would in a purposely built theater space.

[00:23:14] Jessica Busch: Hm. Interesting. So doing a lot of little things to make it look like whatever event is being hosted, it’s supposed to be there.

[00:23:20] Emily Carlip: That’s exactly right. There’s nothing worse than the idea of a multi-purpose space where you want to go see hockey, but uh, which by the way has a rink that’s twice the size of a basketball court and you’re sitting up in the nosebleeds, right? With an angle that’s totally obstructed by a column or by a truss or by something because you weren’t supposed to be there for that event.

[00:23:42] Jessica Busch: Right. They’re getting smarter. I like it. Okay. And so I’m talking about getting smarter. Let’s look ahead. Right? Um, what trends are you guys anticipating? What are you watching and how will that shape the construction of these live entertainment spaces for the next 5-10 years?

[00:23:56] Molly Hayes: Well, I know we, we sort of previewed this earlier on, but I think a couple elements. One is there’s much more of a interest in women’s sports and so, uh, by no means is it equal in terms of how much funding is available, but I think we’re really heading in the right direction with, uh, unique training facilities, with hopefully more arenas and stadiums, possibly renovations, so that, uh, We don’t overblow our carbon usage.

[00:24:23] Um, so they think there will be more interest in women’s sports. Uh, we’ve already seen that, like I shared about the, uh, exciting season ticket deposits for the Valkyrie or for the historic WNBA finals that have been over the last week. Um, but also, because we are in this post pandemic world, there’s been a lot of focus on how do we bring people back to cities?

[00:24:45] And I do think I strongly believe that arenas and stadiums as the anchor tenant are one of the great ways to do that, right? There’s a lot of opportunity there with getting people back. Basically, creating a neighborhood out of it. And of course there’s elements to solve, right? How do you make sure that that traffic is not an issue? That parking is, is solvable, but I think, I’m, I’m hopeful that that will be the future in which it, it becomes a fully integrated solution. Where you’re going for the game, but you’ll, you’ll, you’ll go early and you’ll hang out and you’ll be able to, um, be a part of the experience and have that be just the anchor, but a reason to stay for the entire day or weekend.

[00:25:26] Jessica Busch: And so, we’ve talked about, um, the teams and the fans, but how on the construction kind of trade partner side of things, um, how can we have, get better solutions together in the future? How do you see that happening?

[00:25:42] Emily Carlip: I think, especially with this idea around women’s sports, um, we as design partners or people in construction or owners really need to think about how do we approach design differently as true holistic partners.

[00:25:57] And I’ll give an example of my experience on the WNBA Seattle Storm, um, center. That team, when I worked on it was valued at about 160 million, which I think was the most for the WNBA at the time. My other NBA basketball facility, of course, was with Molly and Chase Center and at that same time, the Golden State Warriors were valued at 7 billion.

[00:26:19] Jessica Busch: Quite a difference.

[00:26:20] Emily Carlip: A little bit. So, when you’re thinking about cost differential and what’s the true budget that we can achieve together, you have to make some really hard decisions because you’re not going to get everything you want. Um, and so that requires us to think a little bit differently and step outside of the bounds of, yes, I’m a structural engineer, but I do know more than just steel and concrete.

[00:26:40] And together, working with every single part of the, of the team, how do we come up with solutions that can get us there? And so, for example, on our project, we ended up doing a concrete tilt up building instead of what it would have been a normal steel building that ended up saving money in the exterior facade, which has nothing to do with my scope, but that choice enabled us to have that project continue.

[00:27:04] Jessica Busch: Right.

[00:27:04] Emily Carlip: So, making hard decisions, but as a team, recognizing that there’s a value alignment to the goal, um, is what’s really going to be required for us to make a big step here.

[00:27:14] Jessica Busch: And getting all those partners to the table very, very early on.

[00:27:17] Emily Carlip: Very early.

[00:27:17] Molly Hayes: Yeah. And I think it’s also worth mentioning, right, we’re talking, we’re taking a deep dive into the design and the construction, but there is a big group of people that are working behind the scenes that are focusing on corporate sponsorships, on marketing.

[00:27:31] Jessica Busch: Getting that money in the door. Right.

[00:27:32] Molly Hayes: Exactly. And so, you know, a lot of times we’re in the, the spend money category and there’s a bunch of, uh, people that are helping earn money. And they need to work together because, um, same thing with the media rights deals that Emily was referring to earlier, uh, that is the best way that we’ll be able to continue to spend money is to earn money as well.

[00:27:51] So I just want to recognize that there is a lot more going on over there, uh, but here we’re focusing on how do we actually build these buildings.

[00:28:00] Jessica Busch: Well, I’m going to let you guys go. This was fabulous. But I did want to mention that if people want to kind of learn more, dive a little deeper into this, we’re definitely going to tag both of you in the post.

[00:28:10] They can reach out to you on LinkedIn. Um, we’ll provide those links. I know you have some great other podcasts that dive a little bit deeper into this topic and you guys have much more than we have time, um, to talk about today. So, I wanted to thank you both. This was fabulous and I think we’ll probably need to be back for like a little part two later.

[00:28:28] So thank you.

[00:28:29] Molly Hayes: so much. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I will. I’ll give a shout out because I know Emily and I. Uh, in our free time talk about women’s sports and, um, we both have listened to, I think you have, you actually originally got me hooked on Women Blazers is a great podcast about women’s sports leaders, uh, or just sports industry leaders that are often women, uh, hosted by, uh, Dionna Widder, I believe.

[00:28:50] So if you do want to learn more, yeah, uh, no one paid me to say that too, but if you want to learn more, um, yeah. Then I would also suggest tuning into that. Perfect.

[00:29:00] Jessica Busch: Alright, well thank you both and we’ll talk soon.

[00:29:02] Molly Hayes: Thank you. Thank you.

[00:29:04] Brad Ducey: Thank you for joining us for the Construction Insiders Podcast. You can continue the conversation by leaving a comment, asking a question, or participating in our poll.

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