Overview

In Part 1, we explore the surge in theme park development as global attendance climbs past pre-COVID levels. Asif Parkar and Eugenie LeRoux joins us to break down what’s fueling this momentum, from expanding markets to the rise of AI and immersive, story-driven guest experiences. We look at how technology is blurring the line between reality and fantasy and why this shift matters for owners, designers, and builders. Stay tuned for Part 2.

Podcast Transcript

[00:00:59] Jessica Busch: I’m your host Jessica Busch, and today we’re diving into one of the most exciting and rapidly evolving sectors in construction themed entertainment.

[00:01:08] Jessica Busch: From mega theme parks to immersive brand experiences, the industry is experiencing unprecedented momentum. We’re seeing traditional players expand globally. We’re seeing tech giants like Netflix enter the space, and we’re also seeing theme park attendance exceed pre COVID levels. But building these experiences, these magical destinations, it comes with a lot of unique challenges from managing complex creative visions to navigating budgets that can quickly and easily spiral outta control.

[00:01:42] Jessica Busch: Today we’re joined by Asif Parker and Eugenie LeRoux, um, both with Cumming Group and both heavily involved in our themed entertainment projects. So thank you both for joining us today.

[00:01:54] Asif Parkar: Thanks for having us. Thank you.

[00:01:57] Jessica Busch: For listeners that may not be too familiar with themed entertainment or haven’t been following it as closely as you both do on your day-to-day, in your day-to-day worlds, can you paint a picture of what the sector looks like today and how it’s evolved?

[00:02:16] Jessica Busch: Over the last five to 10 years.

[00:02:19] Asif Parkar: Thanks Jessica. Well, yeah. Um, while Disney and Universal definitely still dominate the, uh, the sector and the space over the last 10 or 15 years, we’ve definitely seen an increase in the number of operators, certainly from China. If you look at the latest attendance numbers, you’ll see a three or four companies, uh, from China, and they’re making up about a third of at tendencies.

[00:02:41] Asif Parkar: So that’s. A percentage wise, something that’s doubled over the last 10 or 15 years. And it’s really testament to the fact that the Chinese have learned so quickly, particularly after Shanghai Disney and also the, uh, the appetite for themed entertainment in Asia. So that’s definitely a trend that we’ve seen.

[00:02:58] Jessica Busch: So a global trend.

[00:02:59] Asif Parkar: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, you know, the thirst, four themed entertainment practices and experiences all over the world is increasing, but particularly so in, in Asia, I would say.

[00:03:09] Jessica Busch: Okay. One thing that people that have been following the, the global difference is where you see kind of this.

[00:03:19] Jessica Busch: Taking off in terms of the conversation and where we kind of need to go from the jump right now.

[00:03:24] Asif Parkar: Yeah. I think look, on a global scale, there’s definitely mature markets mm-hmm. And markets that are in their infancy and we can, we can pick them. We know that the US is a mature market. Mm-hmm. The theme park industry basically grew up here, but then you look at somewhere like the Middle East where they just ex.

[00:03:38] Asif Parkar: Explosive growth at the moment. It’s starting with the 2020 vision that, uh, started in Dubai and now it’s the 2030 vision that the kingdom of Saudi Arabia is leading with some mind blowing projects there. So you say that’s in its infancy. And then you have those markets that are sort of in between like South Korea, which has established parks there, but they’ve got a couple of new ones that are being planned there.

[00:03:58] Asif Parkar: So there’s room, room for everyone and a lot of appetite. And it’s not just. About the big theme parks. Mm-hmm. There’s a lot of new players as well. So some of the high tech companies are, um, dabbling, you know, uh, dipping their toes into themed entertainment somewhat, and which we’ll get

[00:04:14] Jessica Busch: to later ’cause Netflix has entered this space and that’s

[00:04:16] Asif Parkar: absolutely quite different.

[00:04:17] Asif Parkar: A lot of eyes on that one, right? Yes. Uh, but also like the cruise line, uh, industry as well, you know, uh, the Royal Caribbean in particular, they’ve announced lots of projects, including a very large one in, in Mexico. So lots of space and opportunities for all comers.

[00:04:31] Jessica Busch: Okay, so we’ve, we’ve talked about that global landscape a little bit, but I guess going into maybe my second question here, other than the global market, um, moving and, and encouraging this momentum in this space, is it also any post pandemic, um, kind of pent up demand?

[00:04:49] Jessica Busch: Is it additional markets, like you said, maybe that are some mature, maybe just some expanding? What is this explosive. Kind of growth being, what’s the whole picture here, I guess?

[00:05:00] Asif Parkar: Yeah. Yeah. I, I’ve certainly seen since the numbers right now in terms of attendance are just now exceeding pre COVID levels, as you mentioned.

[00:05:07] Asif Parkar: Okay. Yeah. So that’s a, a real boon to the industry. What, what are some of the things that, that you are seeing Eugenie,

[00:05:13] Eugenie LeRoux: so, absolutely. Um. Big changes, of course, is technology and introduction of ai. Mm-hmm. So especially with theme parks in the olden days, were more kind of looking at decorations. Mm-hmm. I would say.

[00:05:27] Eugenie LeRoux: Mm. Now it has changed completely where your guests become part of immersive experiences and it, and that’s the

[00:05:35] Jessica Busch: word that we’re hearing more and more this immersive experience and the guest immersive experience. Yes. Okay. So what. Kind of is the difference between that immersive experience and a themed entertainment experience, how do you define that?

[00:05:52] Jessica Busch: Does it matter when it comes to construction at the end of the day, if we’re calling it an immersive experience or a themed entertainment, how does that. Work And from your perspective and, and does it matter

[00:06:02] Eugenie LeRoux: For defining things? So, so I think themed entertainment is really the name for the whole industry that is creating themed experiences.

[00:06:13] Eugenie LeRoux: Mm-hmm. Or theme places. That is your, for instance, the theme park museum. That’s the umbrella that it falls. It can be, yeah. Whereas, um. Immersive experience is kind of the goal or the outcome of themed entertainment. Okay, so what happens is we are, it is the creative team that. Take your storyline, make it very unique, and then using technology basically like vr, ar, special effects and sounds to really work with all everybody’s senses and to really create that feeling that you are not here, you are basically.

[00:06:55] Eugenie LeRoux: Far of that environment. Mm-hmm. And um, what happened for the years is, like I said, in the olden days, you were looking at themed places. Yes. Now you are part of it, and if you participate, you actually change the whole experience where you can control the experience. So

[00:07:14] Jessica Busch: It’s a unique experience Yes. Based on the individual’s participation.

[00:07:17] Eugenie LeRoux: Exactly. And that is the big appeal and the big reason why everyone goes back.

[00:07:23] Jessica Busch: Yeah. So, okay. Does it matter in terms of construction? I’m thinking of, you know, something like these luxury brands mm-hmm. That are going into this. I’m not sure how you’d categor a themed experience and immersive experiences.

[00:07:40] Jessica Busch: We have a lot of high end, um, clients that we’re working with that have these more themed entertainment type of plans and visions. Does it matter from a construction perspective if we’re working on a universal project? Or a project with Louis Vuitton. Does that, does it matter from the construction standpoint, I guess is,

[00:07:57] Eugenie LeRoux: Well you, let’s call it your facility or your building that is still mm-hmm.

[00:08:02] Eugenie LeRoux: Standard construction. Mm-hmm. And the more complicated part is really pricing or developing the themed experience. Mm-hmm. Which is a creative, um, context that needs to be developed. Mm-hmm. And that is definitely more complicated to price than. Buildings, which is kind of standard building construction.

[00:08:23] Eugenie LeRoux: Yeah. Standard. Yeah. Okay. And then obviously if you work with the bigger ips that are really known, it’s a different level of budget, different level of, um, budgets are very different. Everything. Yeah. There’s so much bigger, whereas. The smaller companies still have the same elements. Mm-hmm. But it is more localized.

[00:08:42] Eugenie LeRoux: So for instance, family entertainment centers and um, so it is the same principles that you apply just in a smaller scale.

[00:08:50] Jessica Busch: So the scale, I guess is what, yeah.

[00:08:52] Eugenie LeRoux: Yeah.

[00:08:53] Jessica Busch: Changes it. Okay. Yeah.

[00:08:55] Eugenie LeRoux: But all the components are components, same scales,

[00:08:58] Jessica Busch: what the game changer is

[00:08:59] Eugenie LeRoux: and the same kind of teams. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

[00:09:01] Eugenie LeRoux: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:03] Jessica Busch: Wonderful. Okay. I’ll preface this by, without breaking any NDAs, I know you guys have a lot of them that you’ve signed recently. Um, there are quite a few major projects that have been announced recently. Um, what kinds of projects are you guys seeing come on the horizon? Um. What can you tell us about where this industry is heading?

[00:09:26] Asif Parkar: Yeah. Well, fortunately there have been a lot of projects that have been announced. They’re out in the press. So just to sort of reel off, uh, a few of the ones that, that, uh, that we can share. Universal Studios, of course, is planning their next park in, in Bedford, England. That’s gonna be a huge deal. That’s gonna be fantastic for the UK market.

[00:09:42] Asif Parkar: Mm-hmm. And the surrounding countries. Probably will have a similar impact to what Disney had when they went into China. So, uh, very interested to see how they developed that one. And then of course you have Disney announcing their park in Abu Dhabi, so that’s gonna be an incredible venture. Um, working with morale out there who already have delivered some experiences there.

[00:10:03] Asif Parkar: Paramount have announced a park in South Korea. Now Paramount has wonderful ip. They’ve got a broad IP and the world really deserves it at, at Paramount Park, so I really hope that that one happens. Looking forward to seeing that one

[00:10:17] Jessica Busch: something different.

[00:10:17] Asif Parkar: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Jumping back to the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, there’s just, uh, uh, a lot of projects have been planned.

[00:10:25] Asif Parkar: Six Flags is about to open, that’s gonna have a lot of record breaking rides tall. Longest, fastest, et cetera, et cetera. Yep. Um. Water parks. They’re doing a huge water park out there in, uh, in the kingdom called Aqua Arabia.

[00:10:41] Jessica Busch: Hmm.

[00:10:41] Asif Parkar: And then, um, let’s see, we spoke about the cruise lines and rural Caribbean doing their destination resort in, uh, in Mexico, and then going a little bit smaller scale.

[00:10:51] Asif Parkar: Netflix we mentioned. Yes. So they’ve got a couple of projects that are gonna open by the end of this year, so that’s really, really exciting. Um. Meow Wolf have also announced a couple of projects, so you can see there is a real breadth to, uh, yeah, we could just keep you going. Yeah. We could

[00:11:04] Jessica Busch: keep you on the couch for a while going through the projects.

[00:11:06] Asif Parkar: Exactly. But it, it’s great for the industry. A lot of opportunities.

[00:11:08] Jessica Busch: Yeah. You know, we, we talked a little bit about some of these non-traditional players that are coming in. Um, what does that mean on the construction side of things when you have a streaming service or a retail brand like we just mentioned, that wants to come in and create this physical experience?

[00:11:25] Jessica Busch: Um. Are they prepared for what is to come? ’cause it’s not their bread and butter.

[00:11:33] Asif Parkar: That’s, that’s a great question. I mean, um, so first of all, when new parties come to theme interview, I love it. Okay. Whether it’s developers, whether it’s suppliers, it, it gets you excited. It does. Whether it’s, you know, a new creative firm.

[00:11:47] Asif Parkar: I do. I love it. Yeah. Because what it does, it breeds innovation. It breeds competition, you know? Mm-hmm. And it changes the playing field, just new ideas. So I, I always look out for new, new entrants to the marketplace. Having said that theme park construction is difficult, it’s complicated, it’s expensive.

[00:12:06] Asif Parkar: Your return on investment could be 10 to 15 years down the road after first touch on a project. Mm-hmm. So it’s not for the faint hearted and, um. There’s lots of examples of projects that didn’t make it for every project that we’ve worked on. You’ll probably agree. Yeah. There’s prob, which you I saw her

[00:12:21] Jessica Busch: shaking her head over there.

[00:12:22] Jessica Busch: Yeah. And

[00:12:23] Asif Parkar: which, which proceeded, we’ve probably worked on nine or 10, which didn’t make it in the last year alone. There’ve been some really big examples. Projects that haven’t, um, made it. There’s a reason why only Disney and Universal have completed. Complete theme parks in the United States over the last few decades.

[00:12:41] Asif Parkar: Mm. American Heartland didn’t make it in the last year. Mm-hmm. There’s a reason why Bollywood Park, a park that did open has now closed. Mm. It didn’t make the numbers. And there’s plenty of examples, which you won’t mention of other projects that still exist, but they’re on some sort of life support at the moment.

[00:12:56] Asif Parkar: Yeah. So the, the key thing for success is, um, I guess there’s two types of, let’s say, developers. You’ll have the developers that have no experience with themed entertainment, and that’s a hard road to really get the learning down.

[00:13:13] Jessica Busch: It’s a scary first. Uh,

[00:13:14] Asif Parkar: it is toe

[00:13:15] Jessica Busch: in the water.

[00:13:16] Asif Parkar: It is, it is. And it comes down to your delivery team.

[00:13:18] Asif Parkar: Do you have the right delivery team? But if you’ve never done this type of project, you will use what you know, which is your a and e team or your traditional project managers for these projects. Start with creative. And if you’ve never worked on them, well, what’s creative? You have to understand these things.

[00:13:34] Asif Parkar: Mm-hmm. So these are the types of things. And so in answer to your question, it’s really the delivery team. Okay. And being able to stitch together scope, schedule, and budget on these projects where they either make the grade or they, they, they don’t. Okay.

[00:13:48] Jessica Busch: Ugh. Okay, so talking about this competitive landscape, which just makes me a little nervous.

[00:13:53] Jessica Busch: These regional mid-tier parks, um, a lot of pressure financial, getting those numbers from a construction perspective, how are these smaller players staying competitive? Are they staying competitive? Can they realistically keep pace? Um, what are they, what are they doing? If we are saying. If they are staying competitive.

[00:14:14] Asif Parkar: Yeah. What you seeing in the space?

[00:14:16] Eugenie LeRoux: Yeah. So, you know, they, they realize they deal with a totally different market. So when you look at the smaller, um, localized teamed entertainment, um, the regional park. Yeah. Regional box. They will literally go out of the way to focus on what is the local market where they’re located and they will focus.

[00:14:37] Jessica Busch: So they’re just focused from the get go? Yes. On a different demographic.

[00:14:40] Eugenie LeRoux: Yes. And they would focus on customers that value of fun day with the family. That is great. Value for money. Okay. Versus, um. A family that will go for a whole week away to a big destination, say for five years, for a week away. So you can have clients that love the local experience because it is around a corner.

[00:15:02] Eugenie LeRoux: It’s a fun day. It’s a one day outing, and you know. It’s nearby. So if they have season passes, they will come back and continue coming and these companies know it. So they focus on that and when they, um, invest, they invest smart. So they wouldn’t go and buy or build a brand new, huge attraction, say what they call it type E attraction, which is your.

[00:15:28] Eugenie LeRoux: Speak Type E. A potter, yeah. Attraction. They will rather go and take what they have and maybe improve it by adding technology. So making a. Uh, a non-immersive experience. An immersive experience, and adding special effects and sound effects. Keeping

[00:15:45] Jessica Busch: the foundation of what they have. Yeah, but changing it for modern.

[00:15:48] Eugenie LeRoux: Exactly. And they will focus on stuff like being more efficient. So instead of spending money on. So, for instance, long lines with people, you have to pay for a lot of people to enter. You would basically just use online booking and f you know, be smart with your money. Mm-hmm. And you know, when it comes to attractions, they will make sure that these attractions are appealing to all age groups.

[00:16:14] Eugenie LeRoux: Mm. So that you know that you can rely on repeat business because the whole family wants to come back. Yep. And they would also do things like focus on. The experience. Basically, if there’s a attraction that’s really, really popular, instead of just letting people stand on really long lines, they will see how they can improve the flow of the lines.

[00:16:35] Eugenie LeRoux: So to shorten the wait times, and if you shorten your wait times, obviously the case experience is going up and people will end up spending more money in a park while they are there. So. And other things they, there’s more focus on sustainability because it is not a nice to have anymore. It is. People want to see that you are sustainable and that you’re thinking about the environment in

[00:17:01] Jessica Busch: their local community.

[00:17:03] Jessica Busch: Yeah. That would be much more important than a guest who’s traveling somewhere. Exactly. You could assume,

[00:17:07] Eugenie LeRoux: and they might improve their MB. Um, services adding more, giving more choices and better quality food. Ah, and they will make sure that the experience are clean and it meets the expectation of the visitors.

[00:17:22] Eugenie LeRoux: And obviously to have really good customer service because that’s a, uh, basically deal breaker if your customer service isn’t good. So they focus just on things like that. Um, and. If they keep on focusing on that and advertising is focusing on a local market, they will succeed.

[00:17:42] Jessica Busch: Interesting. Okay. We’ve covered a lot of ground here and I’m gonna stop us for part one.

[00:17:47] Jessica Busch: Um, we’ve talked about everything from the explosive growth in the sector to how regional parks are staying competitive moving forward. Um, I have a few questions for you guys on the money side of thing. Cost. Budgets, all of those things that you either love or hate that conversation. But let’s save that for next time and we’ll pick up really soon.

[00:18:07] Jessica Busch: Thank you both.

[00:18:11] Brad Ducey: Check back in a few weeks as we continue our deep dive into themed entertainment with insights from Asif Parkar and Eugenie LeRoux. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Construction Insiders Podcast, so you’re notified as soon as new episodes go live.